The Judge Prop

UltimaAvalon Sat Nov 15, 2008 11:59 am

I'm not going to wait around for the copyright proposal to pass, so I'll say it now

I'm creating the Judge proposal. If anyone else creates a proposal that dictates the creation of a judge, I will murder you

Pleasantries aside, lets discuss what I have so far.

Prop 30 wrote:This Proposal creates the position of Nomic Judge, whose job is to read and understand every Rule passed, and to decide if Players or Rule amendments dont break any of these rules.

This Proposal also sees the creation of a sub-forum entitled Supreme Court, where cases may be presented before the judge by players of Nomic.

Pending the passing of this proposal, Players will have 1 week to nominate potential judges. After this 1 week, should there be more than 3 players nominated, players vote on the person they'd like to be Judge, with the two people with the highest votes becoming Judge-Elects. Another vote will take place, and the Judge-Elect with 2/3 majority shall be Nomic Judge

There can only be 1 Nomic Judge.

The Nomic Judge cannot pass judgement before a case is presented to him (Say Judge thinks UA's avatar breaks Prop 24. Judge may not rule against his avatar unless someone presents a case)

Should a case arrive that the Nomic Judge cannot pass fair judgement, the Nomic Judge shall appoint a 3rd party player the role of Case Judicator who shall have the power to pass judgement on that case alone

The Nomic Judge shall receive 1 point and 10 Silver Coins for each case presented to him.

The Nomic Judge cannot hold any other elected position within Nomic/Nomia

The Nomic Judge shall forever remain the Nomic Judge unless he resigns, or is impeached by 2/3 majority vote by the players.

Discuss

chenhsi Sat Nov 15, 2008 12:27 pm

I really like the idea of this, with a few exceptions.

UltimaAvalon wrote:Another vote will take place, and the Judge-Elect with 2/3 majority shall be Nomic Judge

If there is no 2/3 majority?

UltimaAvalon wrote:Should a case arrive that the Nomic Judge cannot pass fair judgement, the Nomic Judge shall appoint a 3rd party player the role of Case Judicator who shall have the power to pass judgement on that case alone

And what's to stop them from choosing a friend who would be biased towards the judge?

UltimaAvalon wrote:The Nomic Judge shall receive 1 point and 10 Silver Coins for each case presented to him.

Dislike, too much payment.

UltimaAvalon Sat Nov 15, 2008 12:37 pm

chenhsi wrote:I really like the idea of this, with a few exceptions.

UltimaAvalon wrote:Another vote will take place, and the Judge-Elect with 2/3 majority shall be Nomic Judge

If there is no 2/3 majority?

Hard to forsee. Its not like we have a higher power to step in and make a decision yet. There'd have to be some sort of compromise on the part of the voters.

I mean, what would you suggest? Mud Wrestling? Fight to the death?

chenhsi wrote:
UltimaAvalon wrote:Should a case arrive that the Nomic Judge cannot pass fair judgement, the Nomic Judge shall appoint a 3rd party player the role of Case Judicator who shall have the power to pass judgement on that case alone

And what's to stop them from choosing a friend who would be biased towards the judge?

Nothing, but it was either that or have him select some sort of Jury, and that's time consuming. And Case Judicator is a way cooler name than Jury for the Case

chenhsi wrote:
UltimaAvalon wrote:The Nomic Judge shall receive 1 point and 10 Silver Coins for each case presented to him.

Dislike, too much payment.

And how much should he be paid? I think he should get something, especially since points seem to be having a rapidly declining value. Also, its not like there'll be 10 cases popping up a week.

chenhsi Sat Nov 15, 2008 12:40 pm

I have no objection with the 1 point, I have objection with the 10 silver coins.

And.. I was just wondering what we should do if there wasn't a 2/3 majority. Revote? No judge? Is there really a problem with a simple majority?

And I was thinking letting someone else pick the Case Judicator. Maybe a back-up judge?

UltimaAvalon Sat Nov 15, 2008 12:55 pm

chenhsi wrote:I have no objection with the 1 point, I have objection with the 10 silver coins.

I realize, but, I dont see 10 silver coins as being that much

chenhsi wrote:And.. I was just wondering what we should do if there wasn't a 2/3 majority. Revote? No judge? Is there really a problem with a simple majority?

I've never liked the idea of simple majority on such important positions. But yes, I was thinking a revote.

chenhsi wrote:And I was thinking letting someone else pick the Case Judicator. Maybe a back-up judge?

See, you run into the same problem. I mean, you COULD have the Judge-Elect who didn't become Judge be Back-up Judge, but what if he's buddies with the Judge as well? What if he's involved in the case? Why not just make him Case Judicator? Point is, its the Judge's job to be impartial, and if he doesn't have that quality, than he shouldn't have been elected Judge in the first place.

Mokina Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:48 pm

This idea was kind of taken from me, but UA has given it details and probably deserves the points. Nonetheless, I have a few suggestions:

chenhsi wrote:And I was thinking letting someone else pick the Case Judicator. Maybe a back-up judge?

Have the Duke/Duchess pick the Case Judicator. If we're electing the Duke/Duchess from eligible players... hell, have them pick the Judge as well. It's not like we don't have fair representation.

I realize, but, I dont see 10 silver coins as being that much

I dislike the payment for judicial services on principle, but the one point seems perfectly acceptable.

Lord Gurgi Sat Nov 15, 2008 7:03 pm

Would it not be better to give them like 1 silver coin per day, or something similar? Rather than based on cases, so that it is precisely predictable how much they will gain from it.

pyrodwarf Mon Nov 17, 2008 1:44 am

My comments in bold

UltimaAvalon wrote:
Prop 30 wrote:This Proposal creates the position of Nomic Judge, whose job is to read and understand, and interpret every Rule passed, and to decide if Players or Rule amendments ~~dont break~~violate or contradict any of these rules.

This Proposal also sees the creation of a sub-forum entitled Supreme Court, where cases may be presented before the judge by players of Nomic.

Pending the passing of this proposal, Players will have 1 week to nominate potential judges. After this 1 week, should there be more than 3 players nominated, players vote on the person they'd like to be Judge, with the two people with the highest votes becoming Judge-Elects. Another vote will take place, and the Judge-Elect with 2/3 majority shall be Nomic JudgeWhat happens in the case of a split vote? Or niether reciveing the 2/3 majority?

There can only be 1 Nomic Judge.

The Nomic Judge cannot pass judgement before a case is presented to him (Say Judge thinks UA's avatar breaks Prop 24. Judge may not rule against his avatar unless someone presents a case)

Should a case arrive that the Nomic Judge cannot pass fair judgement, the Nomic Judge shall appoint a 3rd party player the role of Case Judicator who shall have the power to pass judgement on that case aloneI would think that a judge could pontentially pick someone that would rule in their favor. Maybe a default "vice-judge"?

The Nomic Judge shall receive 1 point and 10 Silver Coins for each case presented to him.

The Nomic Judge cannot hold any other elected position within Nomic/Nomia

The Nomic Judge shall forever remain the Nomic Judge unless he resigns, or is impeached by 2/3 majority vote by the players.

Discuss

UltimaAvalon Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:12 pm

If someone wants to take this, edit it, fix it, modify it somehow, go ahead. This need to be done and I've become rather busy

HPew Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:55 am

Comments in bold

UltimaAvalon wrote:

I'm creating the Judge proposal. If anyone else creates a proposal that dictates the creation of a judge, I will murder you
Well this seems a little heated already

Prop 30 wrote:This Proposal creates the position of Nomic Judge, whose job is to read and understand every Rule passed, and to decide if Players or Rule amendments dont break any of these rules.
pyrodwarf is right about he need to tighten the grammar here

Pending the passing of this proposal, Players will have 1 week to nominate potential judges. After this 1 week, should there be more than 3 players nominated, players vote on the person they'd like to be Judge, with the two people with the highest votes becoming Judge-Elects. Another vote will take place, and the Judge-Elect with 2/3 majority shall be Nomic Judge
What if only two are nominated? No rule there. Why not a more flexible 50% +1. Or just most votes

There can only be 1 Nomic Judge.
remove this and we can create a genuine supreme court
The Nomic Judge cannot pass judgement before a case is presented to him (Say Judge thinks UA's avatar breaks Prop 24. Judge may not rule against his avatar unless someone presents a case)

Should a case arrive that the Nomic Judge cannot pass fair judgement, the Nomic Judge shall appoint a 3rd party player the role of Case Judicator who shall have the power to pass judgement on that case alone
who decides on 'fair judgement' - another can o'worms

The Nomic Judge shall receive 1 point and 10 Silver Coins for each case presented to him. No. Why does the judge need this?

The Nomic Judge cannot hold any other elected position within Nomic/Nomia
Yes. I would add 'cannot make rule propositions or amendments except those directly relating to a case.' Because we've got the judgement but not the penalties or powers - THAT IS VERY BAD. The judge in this prop either has no power or unlimited power, this must be addressed.
The Nomic Judge shall forever remain the Nomic Judge unless he resigns, or is impeached by 2/3 majority vote by the players.
I'd say 33% vote would be sufficient

Discuss

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